Marina Branigan
It's a little bit different when it's your own business and you've kind of built it from the ground up. And you've sacrificed a lot to build a business. And then this idea of bringing somebody in that happened to let go of the control a little bit. That can be a huge stumbling block for people. And I think that's their mindset piece has to be addressed first before we do anything.
Finola Howard
That's Marina branigan, operations partner for consultants and coaches, and founder of the brava Business Book Club. We're speaking to Marina today for her pragmatism, her ability to put systems in place that feel right for your business and her perspective on growth. She's the best person for us to speak with to help you prepare for bringing a VA into your business and give you room to breathe. Lean in, as we learn a little more. I'm Finola Howard, intuitive marketer, your host and founder of how great marketing works, I believe that every business has a story to tell, because that's how the market decides whether to buy or not. And your story has to resonate with who you are, and with the people you want to serve. And this podcast is about helping you reach the market in a way that feels right to you. So if you're an entrepreneur with a dream you want to make real, then this is the podcast for you. Because great marketing is your truth share. There's a bit of a theme running in some of the previous conversations that we've been having on the podcast. And in some of the conversations I've been having with people. And there is this idea that in order to get to move beyond the solopreneur stage in your business, to getting to a next level of success in the business to get you on this growth curve, one of the big blocks is around this idea of hiring for the first time. And what I thought would be really useful is to bring a wonderful person on board to talk about that kind of pre emptive step, which is this idea of bringing a VA or someone with virtual to help you on that path to building your team around you. Because modern business is not just about always having employees, it's about this integration between, you know, having virtual people for specific reasons, and having employees or sometimes never having employees. So today, I want to introduce you to someone who really, really respected this space, who's who I worked with a few years ago to help me in my business. And always struck me as someone who was tuned in to what I needed. And always kind of greased the wheels made it easy for me to grow. And so obviously, I want to make it easy for you guys to grow. So I want to welcome Marina brown again.
Speaker 1
And no, I'm very emotional, I hear you say, well,
Finola Howard
it is true. So I want to welcome you because for a couple of reasons. One, I want to get do some practical stuff for people to kind of get insights of how to hire VA, because often we're really bad at hiring vas, and we're, you know, there's a shift in thinking that has to happen. But what I first thought would be kind of interesting for people is how you grew because you actually can't come from this HR perspective and operations perspective, which is this beautiful combination of skills that you need in this space. So give us a quick kind of Cliff Notes so we can get a grounding of your background. Is that okay? Yes,
Speaker 1
yes, a quick and if I'm to slow down, because there's lots to tell. Great. So the more the merrier. Yeah, like when I was in college, I worked for one of Ireland's bigger retailers, right. So they would have had branches in every town in Ireland. And when I finished college, they gave me the opportunity then to become like a trainee HR manager or a source. So I spent 21, I packed up when I moved to Dublin and joined one of the stores were about maybe 300 employees in that store. And the idea was that I would shadow the in house HR manager for maybe six to 12 months, learn everything from her and then without real sore. So that all went really well for a couple of months. And I go on great with her. And we had this amazing chemistry and the learned loads. And then she was so good. She got headhunted into a different company. So unfortunately, there was nobody to replace it. So what happened was three months into my training, I was in the store, retrieve computer plays unreal, which was a real baptism of fire and there was a management team and there was head office and that was certainly in terms of the day to day HR. It was just me. And there was huge learning in that in terms of going straight in off the deep end and all of the stuff that comes about and there was also a sadness I think to me that I didn't kind of get that whole training and experience and I always kind of felt that I was missing something that was a whole other way training. So I think I carry that with me in terms of behaviour or ping boss, that that company would have moved their managers around different stores quite regularly. So my time there, I think I worked in four or five different stores, and it went from stores that are maybe 2530 years old, that would have had really long standing staff, too, they went through this period of expansion in 2006. And they opened lots of new stores. And they gave me the opportunity to be the HR manager for a new store. So there was a lot of the the work that came with that huge recruitment drives, you know, given all of the staff trained up in time for the store opening. So I think I kind of experienced the hate your role at every level in that company, and then moved on and did HR at a couple of others until about 2009. When my role was made redundant, it was just that time when the recession and AmEx jobs are being lost. But prior to my role being made redundant of that company, there was another round of redundancies. And because I had an HR role, I was in the room with lots of people when this news was being broken to them. And it was really painful, actually, it was the type of company where people worked for a long time. And there were men who were like, you know, had been there for maybe 30 years, had no other education, whatsoever experience, kind of felt that they were at an age where they were unemployed without what's still had mortgages and families and all that. So it was a lot of hardship and pain at that time. And I was sort of starting to become disillusioned with the role and whether I was the right type of person for that role, because I'm quite a sensitive person. And I feel that stuff really deeply, you know, so when, when I was made redundant, it took about five or five months even to find another job, because I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And what happened then was there was a French asset manager, who were opening an office in dromeda, which is my hometown, there was a guy who was open in the office, and he needed someone to come in in a support role. So I got the job with him. And to be honest, it was like a breath of fresh air because it felt like all of that heaviness that was there with the redundancies and that sort of thing was just gone. And I could come in and focus on my own work and not have to worry about anything else. I
Finola Howard
have a question. That's very interesting, how you've, because I know that of you that you would feel it deeply have a question of, if you have an opinion on this. HR, I remember studying HR, in college and stuff and organisational behaviour, subjects like this. And even I've worked with HR people over the last few years from an internal marketing perspective. And it seems to me that the way in an idealistic space HR, the words, human resources, treating your humans as resources is a really constructive, ideal situation. But there is this, this sense that I've gotten over the last few years that and it's I'm probably just saying the obvious, but I wanted to say the obvious, which is it has, do you feel that HR has become to procedure lead, process lead and forget the human in the mix? Do you have any sense that this is changing? Would that have contributed? Is that what you felt? I suppose I'm asking at the time. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1
And I think a lot of I think the type of companies that I worked for HR was very much a compliance role, you know, you were ticking the boxes and making sure things were getting done and that sort of thing. Whereas an hour, I suppose, in the in the position that I'm in now I see lots of people who are doing leadership, coaching and that sort of thing. And I think that's almost like an outsource sort of thing. Now the in house seems to be the compliance side, and then the outsource that sort of thing, which you think that's a mistake? I don't know. We think if it works for a company, if if, if it works for a company then great was, I don't know, what type of message does it send out to the staff that that piece is outsourced? And that all of the, I suppose the financial commitment to skip it to the compliance side of things. Great
Finola Howard
answer. Thank you. Continue, please. Yeah, so
Speaker 1
I see. So I was working for this asset manager, and it was more of an operational role. And I loved it because I would, I would have really good numeracy skills. And it really appealed to that I'd love to spreadsheets, love the reports. All that's one thing. I really love this, and I actually stayed in that job for about 10 years and there was lots of change in that time. You know, there were people came and went and then the office actually moved from drydock to w. So there was loads of change. But I loved us, I loved the job. I love the structure to methodical nature of us, or what I found I was missing was the heart. And I really wanted to find something that filled that part of me. So there was another Learning Centre Andrada, who were looking for tutors to come in and do a one to one tutoring with adults who had returned to education after a long time edit the system. And I said, Okay, that's what I'll do, I could do that. And maybe the weeks afterward, whatever. So I did a tutor training course, with the idea that I have a one to one learner at the end. And it must have come up in conversation with them the type of work that I did, because at the end of it, they said to me, Listen, we know that you're ready for a one to one learner, but actually, we've got this maths group who really needs to show would you be interested in doing that? Absolutely, I would love to do that. Because I much prefer the kind of the numbers and the things. So I started with that group. And my gosh, did it fill my house like it was a group of six, seven mariners who were aged, probably from the late 50s, up to mid 60s, who'd all left school early, who'd had like a really negative experience at school took this huge, brave step up on back. And it was a really, really special time. And then I went back into the post grad in teaching for the Florida education sector. And I spent about five years teaching part time alongside this financial services job. So it was pretty full on and kind of getting to a stage where I knew I was going to have to make a decision between one or the other because I just couldn't keep doing both. And even though the teaching job was really fulfilling, things were happening that led me to believe there wasn't a real development track in that for me. And then my dad got sick. And he passed away in March 2017. And I was like, Okay, I need to make a decision, I felt like I was being too passive. And the whole thing, it was time to do something really bold, you know, when you have that sort of, when you go through a bereavement, you have this kind of sense of life is short, and let's just do whatever. So I, I left the teaching role, and kind of modelled over things for a little while. And then I decided, Okay, my next step is I'm going to start my whole business. I signed off, how
Finola Howard
did you make that leap of thinking, like, because was it just such a big departure, or I
Speaker 1
think it was building for a while. And I think that in a lot of the jobs that I was in, decisions were made, that were serving people based on their own agenda. And I kind of felt like, I was ready to start making some decisions for me. And I really wanted that kind of sense of agency. And, yeah, so like, I signed up for the Social Business course, I had no idea what my business was going to be. And I remember going into the actual business course. And the facilitation went around the room. And she was asking everybody what their business was, or their business idea. And everybody had something really clear. And she came to me and I was like, I don't know. But I really felt like, I just needed to surround myself with people who were in that space. And then I was like, I just needed to trust that the idea would come. And at some point during that course, somebody mentioned the terrible virtual assistants, my ears kind of picked up along at home and researched the hell out of us and joined every virtual assistant group there was and I said, Yes, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And then by November 2017, I had launched rob a virtual limited, like, I went straight in with a limited company. At the time, it was already and did that kind of part time, again, alongside the Financial Services job until April 2019. And then went farther, because I met you in the part time space. Yeah, I think we met through Facebook or something like that.
Finola Howard
And the interesting thing, just a couple of things that always come to me. One is, when we had a chat about this conversation, I said to you, I'm curious as to the things that triggered your growth. And you said, like, where, what were the triggers that moved you and the first thing that you said was grief, and they've actually not heard that, like, so your your your language says, and the most obvious thing in the world fanola That this would be a time of movement. And, and it isn't, necessarily, because I know that you lost your mom also, last year, which I'm sorry about. But it also triggered you again. Tell me is it it's a very interesting instant response to triggers for growth. Can you say a little bit more about it?
Speaker 1
I think I think that's a very personal journey for everybody and it evokes a bold trigger people in the way it triggered me what for me? I vote in somebody who thinks a lapse over things and UPS can be anxious at times and something Unlike grief, again, just gives you that kick to go listen, we're not hear from us. And you know what? It's okay to be a little bit bold and what's the worst that could happen and for me, it really a will that courage in me to to move forward and like, my dad died at 70 to 75. And so it's quite young, you know, and particularly for my dad, because he had that traditional kind of, you know, went out and worked and worked really hard. Like, there were seven kids and like family, so he worked really, really hard to for us, though. And I always felt really sad that he retired and had a short period of time for himself and then passed away. And for me, I want something different. And yeah, so the bereavement kind of triggers all of that stuff. But I know that it's a very personal journey. And for other people, it's completely different. But I suppose that was my experience.
Finola Howard
But what a positive, what some really positive thing that your dad left for you that your both your parents left for you to trigger that clarity, that, because there's a team offer when I'm speaking to you, which is around this idea of agency, and this, this idea of agency around entrepreneur entrepreneurship. I had a conversation recently, with another yet to be released episode, but another person who felt that when she looked at entrepreneurs, it was really scary to do this, where it's like, unknown, high risk all the rest of it. Whereas I always find speaking to you that you speak up, you use the word agency quite a lot. And I think that's really interesting is that, can you say a little bit more?
Speaker 1
Well, that I think, first of all, like, I know, when I went to set up my business, there was this whole thing of risk of leaving a job and a lot of people because I've only come from an entrepreneurial background, and a lot of people talk, why are you doing this, you know, would not be better off in this seat job. But like I was made redundant twice, you know. So just because you're in a job, it doesn't mean that you're safer or less at risk. And actually, I think that when you have your own business, you've got that sort of autonomy, and that freedom to diversify and build it in a way you're kind of you can build in security in a way that works for you. So yeah, I think, for me, that's what the the business journey gives me. And the freedom to make decisions that are really aligned with the risk of sounding blue and all that look, I really aligned with my soul, as you know, and and creating something that brings joy and all of that, because you don't always get the opportunity to do that as an employee.
Finola Howard
I love it. Your mom got very ill, then in 2022, so yeah, right. Yeah. So
Speaker 1
when I got diagnosed with terminal cancer in February 22. And by March, are by me, excuse me, she kind of wasn't able to live alone anymore. So she came to me and my partner, we were just we were set up for sunlight. The fact that I worked myself, I work from home, it was just a really good natural access. So yeah, she was here for about nine months. And then she passed away February 23. So
Finola Howard
yeah, that's a huge undertaking. Yeah.
Speaker 1
And we started, just lived in this bubble of love and care, and hugs, lips, tenderness, and sickness for nine months. And I always felt really rageful and proud that I had created this business, this team that supported me and doing that there was no way I could have done that had, I had a nine to five, you know, and I was always so grateful to my clients, because I was at a stage where I wouldn't go into the details of mom's sickness, because she was very private, but like, I had nine months of unbroken sleep, and that obviously effective, like my levels of concentration, and focus on how much I could give to my clients, and they were just so understanding. And there was very much like really just go and do what you need to do. And yes, I was still able to give them what I could give them when I could give it to us. It was just, it was just a really kind of sacred time. That makes sense.
Finola Howard
I'm really glad you shared this because I don't think we ever hear that story. Because when we chatted, we you know we were catching up first of all, because we haven't chatted in ages. And and again that word agency came up that it allowed you this freedom having your own business allowed your this freedom to have this sacred time like it's really powerful time and that and in my own experience because I remember we met the year that my dad passed and and I also will never forget this marina that in a time of huge grief for me because the first year was really really difficult. You're always because you've walked it, you know, you knew what it was like. And I've never forgotten that. And much like you've experienced, I also have clients who just went, don't worry, Finola, it's okay, you come when you're ready, the power of and the humaneness of people that we tend to forget, you know, that supports while we were in the work of supporting our clients, there are times when they are an incredible source of support for us. And I count you as one of the people who really supported me at that time. And I'm always grateful for it. I think we are surprised by it, when it happens when our clients do that for us. When we are in service, you know, when we are giving to our clients, that we we don't always expect that beautiful moment to happen where they give it back to us. Was that your also your experience?
Speaker 1
Very much very much. And, and but then when they call back? It didn't happen by accident. And I'm sure it didn't help all your clients by accident. So I think that the clients gave back because we had given so much to them, you know, and I think because I'm always fully invested with my clients, I know that you are to, and then it becomes this mutually supportive relationship. It's not a transaction or pig anymore. And yeah, I think that's a really special place to work.
Finola Howard
Yeah, I'm glad we talked about that. There's an interesting thing as well about your journey, which I've, and that always strikes me about you. And it's this. You mentioned earlier about thinking too much. But I always and, you know, overthinking or whatever. But I find in my relationship with you, or my knowledge of you over the last few years that there is this consciousness. And yes, there may be triggers to leaps. But there is it's it's an I wonder where this comes from. And I'm wondering if it's this operational, or disability to see you just met, you seem to be very pragmatic and take a leap that makes sense at each point. It's so interesting to me when I think about your leaps, right? So if we and you'll you might, you might share them with you. I'll give you a head start this idea that you did at the start your own business course that you had this clever moment of crossover of part time, business and part time company, when it made sense financially, you flipped a switch and you went over to full time I still remember when you went to full time. I know you're now celebrating five years in business, but you're longer in business. If we add the part time piece, then you switched from from VA to more operational focus, then you switched and did knew that you wanted to do more to scale up on speaking so you did a course with a previous interviewee on this programme were more in Macau. And you talked about that. And that triggered an idea for an online course. And there always seems to be this forward momentum. Is it deliberate? Do you catch yourself at moments of going and we were on a I had a programme at one point called soar which I will be bringing back again. But there was this idea of fermentation and then action. Can you share a little bit about this process of growth, which is not doesn't seem to be happenstance, it seems to be deliberate. And yet organic,
Speaker 1
is live. And I'm kind of laughing to myself because you say that because I suppose what what you see from the outside is these leaps and things really decisive moments, but actually behind that there's a whole heap of taken, there's a whole heap of overthinking. There's lots of research, there's racking my partner's head, trying to map out what all the things that could go wrong, and you know, that sort of thing. So all of that is going on. But I think by the time I've made the decision, I've gone through all that. So from the outside and looks like I am really decisive. But actually I'm probably the worst decision maker.
Finola Howard
What is it that not just planning?
Speaker 1
I don't know. Maybe? Maybe, maybe it is I think
Finola Howard
if it was just happenstance, if it was just like that. You would take longer, Marina. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are people who overthink, and they overthink for years. You have this kind of steady movement year by year I see it. And it's not I don't see it just on the outside. Remember, I was on the inside, you know, so I saw
Speaker 1
I think I think because I deliberately spend time with people who are smarter than me and people who are further along in the business journey than me. And I think that when you spend time in rooms with people like that you can't help us kind of be brought along with the with the chords, you know. And, and that's really important part for me because I mentioned I don't come from an entrepreneurial background, I don't have entrepreneurial friends or anything like that. So I have to be really deliberately business, putting myself in spaces with people who are on that journey and who are a little bit ahead to be on the journey as well. So
Finola Howard
but there you go, you deliberately because this came up in the conversation, because another piece that I saw, you deliberately put yourself in spaces that have you around people that are further along the journey, you consciously do it, it came up in our conversation as well. Not just consciously, deliberately. Yeah, I think that's a really great insight for people who are trying to grow their business and not sure how put your you placed yourself in those situations that force you to grow. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1
exactly. And I know when when we were doing the mastermind, it felt like, like, we were meeting every couple of weeks, whatever. And it felt like everybody, this is only my impression of it felt like everybody knew where their business was going. And I was the only one who didn't know when I was banging my head against a brick wall. At times, it felt like trying to figure out the next stage because I always knew that in terms of my one to one work, I didn't want to go wider. In my business, I didn't want to grow a team, I wanted to go deeper with my clients and I, and I think I've done that. But there's a limit to how much time you can work and all of that sort of stuff. So that puts a cap on how the business can grow. And I really struggled with how I get to the next stage. And I remember talking about this in one of the mastermind sessions and lovely Pam willowblue, Pam bottler mentioned, this whole idea of fermentation. And she said, You know, sometimes it's okay to just stop and let it ferment and see what comes of that. And I remember making a big announcement to the group gone, I've been fermentation took the pressure off, because you have yourself on the edge of that pressure all the time, you can't actually see the woods for the trees. So we took the pressure off. And then Thinkery 21 Maureen, McCarran ran her communicative confidence course. And I knew that whatever I needed to do, I had to find my voice. Because I'm shy by nature, you know, when I would, I would kind of hide away from that stuff, if I let myself. So I did Maureen's course. And hope Maureen doesn't mind me saying this. But as part of the course, you have to develop this kind of to three minute talk to deliver to the group. And at the time, I was like, I have no idea how I'm going to say like, what tips or am I going to give to people or whatever. And the only thing I could think of was to give people three tips to work with the virtual assistant. Because what will happen to up to that point was, we were kind of well into the pandemic, at this stage, lots of businesses were moving online, and in the background, loads of people were contacting me for support, I couldn't support any of them. Because I was fully booked, what was happening on the calls was, I was giving them advice, I was giving them little kind of nuggets as to how to find the right person and all that sort of stuff. So I developed that talk with Maureen. And then that was kind of in the back of my mind. And then after that, I went on and did a short coaching course. And, and that was because I wanted to support my clients better. I was kind of finding in the one to one work, we'd have these conversations every week. And yes, was the operational side. But behind all of that was a human being who was, you know, struggling with blocks and challenges. And that sucks. So I just wanted to be able to ask better questions. And that was the reason I did that course. But I think the combination of having developed a little bit more in course, and then having done the coaching, I felt like gosh, now this, I could create something bigger with this, I can create something really comprehensive. And so towards the end of 2021, I was like, I'm going to create this course, and show people how to work successfully with the virtual assistant. And I have this amazing idea. And then I just busy myself applying to work and procrastinate wasn't enough. And eventually I said I need a coach, I need a coach to get me through this. So found an amazing coach for accountability or for guidance. And she actually turned out to be a bit both. Yeah. Your intention? Intention was accountability. Yeah. Because yeah, I really needed. I'm always very much I think it's because when you're in a service based business, it's a lot about the other person and not so much about yourself. So I need that space and and somebody to hold me accountable. And I remember I started working with her in January 2022. And she said to me, what's your goal? And I said, I wanted to have this course large by the time I turned 40, which was June 22, given where we are today. And we had it launched by me and I remember doing a couple of posts about it online and then move down and there was no connection there was very little activity. I think I just went into maintenance mode to be honest with you in my business so the course was created ABS Probably never really spoken effects. But we're
Finola Howard
going to speak about it now. So, the I love this journey, and I applaud you on this journey because it's conscious. It's a very it is underpinned with consciousness with deliberateness. And I think it's, that's more possible for people than they realise because there's also space. While it's conscious and deliberate. You've also had an experience where you created space to allow the wisdom to come or the insights to come with your fermentation. And I just really love that story, because you can still move forward and just allow things to happen, that are close to next day, like your two minute talk for Maureen McCowan turned into the clue for a product. So I really like that. So what I want to ask you next, because I want to move to this important topic of helping people work with VAs better do you think? What do you see as the most common challenges or mistakes that people make when they say I want to hire a VA, that
Speaker 1
whole piece of I want to hire a VA has been the first step. And that's often what happened when people were contacting me. And then I'd asked them questions at a charge, they weren't really ready to hire VA, because the stuff that happens before hand, they think you need to put those into place. But I think the biggest stumbling block for people has to be the mindset piece. Because, you know, some people have managed maybe at a corporate job, they might have managed people before, but sometimes they haven't. And this could be the first time they have to manage a person, or regardless of their kind of previous experience, it's a little bit different when it's your own business, and you've kind of built it from the ground up, and you know, every nook and cranny of your business, you know how everything works. And you've sacrificed a lot to build a business. And then this idea of bringing somebody in and having to let go to control a little bit. That can be a huge stumbling block for people. And I think that's the mindset piece has to be has to be addressed first, before you do anything. Do
Finola Howard
you feel that it's then it's knee jerk, that someone hires the VA and so that they don't have this moment where they sit and go and do the fermenting fermentation piece and go, Okay, well, why do I want to do it? What are the things that you think they should? Like, it's great that you're starting with mindset? What should they be thinking about? Or should I give it give me the rest of the common mistakes? And then we can go into what should they be thinking about?
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think another common mistake is lack of clarity, and lack of clarity around where are the gaps in your business, and clarity around what exactly you're going to delegate, clarity around how you're going to communicate with your BD and all of that. So just thinking about that stuff in advance. Because again, these are all things that if you bring somebody in before you've gone through this stuff, it just speaks to Jeremy so charge, or do you know, and it's all back and forth, and frustration itself. So I think mindset, lack of clarity. And the third one is, it's not necessarily to do with the hiring of it. But it's, it's this notion that you could kind of bring this unicorn vA into your business, and I go to all these things and fit on these gaps. And the reality is, you're probably not going to find one person to do it's like, I know, my focus is operational. And I've been asked many times by people, or can you do these Facebook ads for me to know and like, I don't do Facebook ads. And I think there's a danger with that, because like, I've done courses, and I've seen how a Facebook ad is set up. So I know the mechanics of the Facebook ads, but I don't know the nuances. And I think that that can be really dangerous when when you expect somebody to come in and do all of the things. Because what happens is if they do them, they're going to be done another kind of, I don't want to say basic because just like maybe at our level, I think that's you're better off working with people who are specialised in different areas, you know, when you have that privilege to do that when you're outsourcing so
Finola Howard
so is that it's a perhaps like, so if someone is getting ready to go to the next level that perhaps they're thinking, it's not that I hire VA? It's, that's not the question they should ask is, what's the team I need of expertise that I can hire, you know, for finite pieces of time within my budget to achieve specific things, but not one person fits all, but a team of people that can plug the gaps in my
Speaker 1
business. Yeah, but I do think that it's a process and perhaps it's finding one person to do a specific piece and figuring out how all of that works before you replicate that across different areas. I think if you if you go from zero to hundreds, it's just going to be overwhelming and complex. So oftentimes, the VA is the first person that comes in and you know, it's task driven and you get some sort of flow in place and then you think, okay, I could do with somebody now to do to do the Facebook ads or to do the marketing side of things, but you've gotten used to that flow. When you're more confident with how it all works, and then you're kind of ready to expand the team.
Finola Howard
Very cool. Okay, let's jump to the steps someone should take when they take when they start thinking about the first hire.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I have five tips for successful. I think that there is a process to working successfully with a virtual assistant. And I think that these follow up chronologically, and I've certainly seen this play out in successful VA relationships. And I've seen in relationships that have worked, where those gaps were. So initially, it's you're looking at the why, then you're into what, how, when, how who, when. So if we look at why that's your mindset piece, and it's just so important. And I think that it really needs to be that first stage in the process, you really need to prepare yourself for this whole idea of letting go of control in your business, and understanding the costs of not letting go. And really, you know, because I think if you understand everything that's at stake by not letting go, you might see it differently then about letting go better control. So I think that's really important.
Finola Howard
Well, let's say what let's talk about that that cost is the cost is lack of growth. What would you say the cost is?
Speaker 1
I think it depends on the person, it could be lack of world, it can affect your quality of life time with your family time you don't get back. I mean, we can always make more money, but we can't we can't make time. There's the frustration that comes with trying to do it all by yourself. You mentioned growth, and it's not even just growth. It's also the expansion, you know, in terms of looking at all the things that you could do and all of the possibilities for your business. So expansion of self. Yeah, I've read somewhere before your business is that I don't have this for about your business is the playing ground for your souls expansion.
Finola Howard
I just, Oh, I love it. Your business is the playing ground for your souls expansion. That's beautiful. I'll Google who that by afterwards.
Speaker 1
The way over it is it's Christine Caine in the sole source entrepreneur, I just might not have a word for word, but beautiful.
Finola Howard
It's gorgeous. A recommended book for today. Marina also has a book club. But let's move on. So I like this mindset sitting thinking, realising I'm letting go of control, to welcome expansion into my self and into the growth of my business. Beautiful, love it. Next is what the
Speaker 1
next is the what so what are you going to delegate? What I'd say here is look at what you do in a typical day or week or month, or whatever the kind of the periods is most suitable for your business. And look at the type of tasks that you do. And I would say, just create a table. So what's in your zone of genius, what tasks are like your essence. So for example, if you're a coach, your coaching sessions are going to be your zone of genius. And then you're going to look at tasks that are those kind of daily repetitive tasks that kind of started this process that might drain your energy, but could easily be handed over to somebody else. I suppose they're like the prime candidates for delegation in the first instance. You know, that kind of, they're really important to your business, and they really need to get done. But they're lower value in terms of, you know, the revenue to generate and how being like jewel. So I think that that's the kind of the wash of delegation, and then you're into the HoH, which is how are you going to delegate effectively? And I always say here, systems before people, I don't mean that systems are more important that people but I do think that you need to have some sort of systems in your business in order to be able to comfortably hand something over to somebody without lots of questions and seats and all that sort of stuff.
Finola Howard
Yeah, I'm with you on data and systems before people, it's a real, I've learned that over the years also that you because otherwise you have people sitting there without the support that they need the systems helps you figure it out. But what if someone says to you, but I need to have to actually do those systems? Do you think the systems have to be created by you? Or because I know there are people that you can bring in that help you put in systems? But I have a question over that. Because if that relationship, I've done this, this is why I have questions over. I often find that it's hard to get support on building the systems. If it's, you need someone who's in with you to build those systems, if you're going to get helped you in those systems. Like what's your thought process on that idea of a because I've seen people hire someone, and then it becomes an exercise and a series of Excel spreadsheets or virtual versions of that. They're never used and never applied in the business. Yeah,
Speaker 1
yeah. And I think that that that's often the role that I hold in a business because I think I've evolved from the VA to this kind of operations piece. And like I was after grain and First of all, I'm sitting side by side with the client looking at where the business is going and building systems around that. And then the processes, which means that when it's time to bring somebody in, that the process is there for them. However, that's not in everybody's budgets, and particularly if you're starting out, the VA might be the most affordable option. So when somebody says that they can't create, like a process, whatever, this doesn't have to be a manual, you know, a 300 page manual of processes, it's literally looking at the things that could initially be handed over. And it could be a case of recording loom video, you know, it could be something really simple and straightforward is just something that gives the VA an idea of what success looks like to you. What does it mean, if I complete this task successfully? What does it look like? And that might be a step by step process. In some cases, you might not be bothered with the step by step, you just might be concerned with the outcome. And maybe you give them the freedom to do that job, in their own way, do you know, so there's lots of different ways of doing it. But I think it's getting a few procedures in place for those initial tasks, as the virtual assistant is coming into your business, they're getting used to your systems and how all of that is working. I think the processes are really important for that stage. And then as the VA gets to know your business better, maybe they become a little less necessary. If their tasks are outcome based, you know, you trust them, or you trust them to do the things the way you want them to do. Maybe the first few tasks are more kind of step by step. So kind of start small. Absolutely. I always say start slow, and then let go build a trust. And then wait.
Finola Howard
Very good, very good. Okay, who is next,
Speaker 1
your who so crew is, we often hear things about your ideal client avatar, and I think you should have an idea of the Avatar, I think that you first of all need to look at yourself, your own strengths and weaknesses in your business, your personality style, your natural way of working, and then you know where the gaps are. And you can bring in the idea the to fill those gaps. I think you're looking for somebody whose skills complement yours. So for example, if you are a real visionary person, and you're like all about the ideas of maybe struggled with the follow through, you're looking for somebody with a really strong follow through, you're looking for a finisher, to come in and do those things so that they keep working on this project when you're off on the next one. I think that's really important.
Finola Howard
Because Isn't it very common that I would see is often people want to just duplicate themselves?
Speaker 1
Exactly, exactly. And it's really comfortable to do that, because you might have the crack before wedding and you know, what are your very like, but actually, the, I think, in nearly all of my clients, because a lot of my clients are coaches and stuff. And we're into discs and assessments and all that. And oftentimes, when you look at our graphs are like a mirror image of each other, you know that the yin and the yang, and that's why it works really well, because our skill sets complement each other. That brings a certain amount of tension as well, because you're working with somebody still different. But I think once you have an awareness office and the different styles of how to communicate the different styles, it brings certain logic, I think, to the whole relationship.
Finola Howard
Love it, you always say that this kind of person in your work that you see yourself as the wing woman. And that kind of makes sense to me. If you're doing if you are the compliment. If you're the opposite of the person, you have to be the wing woman. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I think like, don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for transactional relationships. But I think that if you bring a VA, or somebody like that into your business, and you want them to be there with you through the journey, it's really important to build that relationship and be conduit, and you have to, you have to let them in. To do that, you know, there has to be the bond of trust, there has to be the time given to to get to know each other in the conversations and understanding each other's worlds, rather than just, you know, focusing purely on the tasks. But I definitely see that pays dividends,
Finola Howard
The when is number five,
Speaker 1
the when so when you've gone through the why the what the how, and the who, this is the when so you're ready now to kind of be looking at bringing someone into your business. And I would just say at this stage, you're looking at making sure that you've got effective onboarding processes in place, you know, how you're going to introduce into your business, you know, are you going to do things like, you know, share passwords, that communicates and all that sort of stuff. And also, you know, I don't want to take that off board at this stage. But your onboarding feeds into all 14, because at some point, you're going to have to afford this person for your business, because the chances of it being a private deal are next to none. Right? So it's really having something in place that on smoothly. Because I think that potentially, if your business grows to an extent where you're ready to hire a team, a team of direct employees that might not be replaced with a person anymore, their business model could change, they could move on. So there's lots of different reasons why, like it doesn't necessarily it's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be really, it can be a really positive thing. It can be a sign of growth and that you're ready to move on. But yeah, I'd say the chances of you being like, in the later stages of your business and still having that VA will be will be quite low. Great
Finola Howard
advice. So in offboarding, what are the kinds of things that you should be thinking about in offboarding, so
Speaker 1
you're looking at, you're probably going to be working in the cloud, right? If you're outsourcing locally, so it's about removing them from any of those cloud based applications safely, and security, while making sure that anything they've created to replace any passwords you've shared, or removed any client relationships that they've been involved in that you've got a full understanding of their kind of stepping off points, you know, so that the relationship doesn't get affected by that. And any sort of input they've had entertain process, it's just making sure that you can catch whatever I do want to say, drops dropped us quite negative, or whatever is left behind that you're able to kind of move with that as seamlessly as possible. And what I paid the bat is a function of the onboarding. And I think that's the more deliberate you are the onboarding, that then allows for a smoother or prepares for
Finola Howard
the onboarding? And then you don't have to think about it. Can I ask you a question, then is this process these five, top five tips, is that part of your beautiful course of how to hire a VA, or tell us about this course, how to work successfully with a VA sorry,
Speaker 1
to know to know, well, so I've seen I've seen really successful VA relationships. And I've seen the power that they have, I've seen businesses grow and flourish, because they have this kind of back end support. And it gives them the confidence to go out and develop new services and all of that sort of stuff. I've also seen when it doesn't work, I've seen the damage it can do to the competence of the client and the VA, I've seen the damage you can do to business processes, when things get broken, that sort of thing. So I take that taken a step back. And I want to use that word deliberately. Again, doing this thing deliberately gives it a much greater chance of success. My course looks at sort of four modules, the initial holders mindset, then we look at systems before people again, getting all of your systems in place, then we're looking at your idea, the and then we're looking at making it all work. So it's like things like the onboarding, onboarding, boundaries, communication, all that sort of stuff. And I think it's just, it's a really practical, lived experience of working successfully in that relationship, and sharing that with as many people.
Finola Howard
Thank you so much. And I know that you have a percentage off for people who will put a link in the show notes and you have a coupon code to give some give people some money off this. You want to tell people?
Speaker 1
Oh, yes, yes. So it's 2024. So we said why not? Not 24% offers so decoders, but only 24. And, yeah, yeah, I think I think that it's well worth just I'd like to the course itself, I tried to make it as kind of bite sized and get comprehensive at the same time, because I know that anybody who's at the stage where they're thinking about this stuff, they're already busy, because it's nice to be able to say, you know, plan out six months in advance of when you're going to hire a VA, but the reality is we do and we're under pressure. So it's, it's as concise as possible. Nice short videos, a few worksheets to work through to get you to reflect on how you want to go into this journey. And yeah, I think it's I think it's going to really help people to do the thing successfully.
Finola Howard
Lovely, thank you so much. What would you like to leave people with today?
Speaker 1
Gosh, I asked the Tibetan that question. What I will say is, what I will say is, my first client who wasn't a friend or a family member, was the lovely footnote he learned was, what from Finola was that the relationship could be at the heart of of the work. And every conversation we had. I know we had that shared experience of bereavement and stuff like that. But you really showed me the importance of understanding the person behind that computer screen that that has really made a huge difference to my business. And I think all of my client relationships are like that now. And yeah, I think it's, I think when you put the relationship at the heart of things, everything else flows through that being like, Thank you for teaching me that.
Finola Howard
Wow. Now I'm stumped. Binary vows for words. Thank you so much. That's been powerful. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you'd like to find out more about Marina, connect with her on LinkedIn, and check out Brava virtual.ie, that's b r A v a virtual.ie. And if you'd like to check out her course room to breathe, how to work successfully with a virtual assistant, then check out the resources page on her website and use the coupon code fanola 24 for 24% off. And if you'd like to support the show, please follow or subscribe on your chosen platform. It makes all the difference to the impact that I'd love this podcast to have on the world. deeper conversations that allow us to grow to celebrate each other's truths and to know that there are many of us who are working with a greater purpose in the world.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
