Finola Howard 0:00
There is a tiny percentage of women who make seven figures. That's my other motivation for doing this, because we want more women to make a million I just excited for you. I'm excited to learn more from how you do this and how it comes off.
Finola Howard 0:19
Today, I'm joined by my publisher, Debbie Jenkins, and you may remember her from Episode 38 where she shared her passion for short, valuable books and her call for change in her own work. Stop writing books nobody reads. Debbie has been such an important part of my journey as an author, and today you'll get a fly on the wall look at how I'm shaping my second book. This book will accompany my open experiment to build a million euro business without the burnout. And I can't wait to share this conversation with you.
Debbie Jenkins 2:36
I'm looking forward to publishing all of your books, because there's going to be so many of them I can imagine. Yeah,
Finola Howard 2:44
so I remember I spoke to you so we are not prepped for this episode, because I kind of wanted it to be raw, so that it would, you'd get my reactions when I'm speaking to Debbie. And so to set the scene, I wrote the book, and the book is, what if Joy was how you measured success and the money proved you right. And then I immediately wanted to say, wanted to prove I want to prove it. I want to prove I'm right. And so my kind of working title for this is proof. So what do you think Debbie, and what do I need to do? What are the steps that I need to take to kind of to reflect on what I need to track, because when I wrote the first book, I had journals and journals and journals
Finola Howard 0:51
I'm Finola Howard, Business Growth strategist with a joyful heart, and your host of the your truth shared podcast. I believe that every business has a story to tell, because that's how the market decides whether to buy or not, and your story has to resonate with who you are and with the people you want to serve. And this podcast is about helping you reach the market in a way that feels right to you. So if you're an entrepreneur with a dream you want to make real, then this is the podcast for you, because great marketing is your truth shared. This is part of my million euro journey, okay? And so what I wanted to do, as you know, I wrote my book, looked at the book, and then, which was called What If. And then said, what now? What next? And I immediately thought of talking to my lovely friend and book publisher, Debbie Jenkins. You might remember Debbie from what's that from? You might remember it's that a Simpsons episode. You might remember Debbie from Episode 38 and actually subsequent episodes, but this is who I published my first book with. See that first book. So what I wanted to do was I wanted to bring Debbie on today and talk about, how the hell am I going to write this next book? Okay? And I just thought it would be really useful. One for me, because I'm very selfish like that, and two for you, if you're starting the journey like me of writing a book, whether it's your first or your 10th or whatever. Welcome. Debbie Jenkins,
Debbie Jenkins 2:30
wow. What a cool introduction. It's so lovely to be back. Thank you very much.
Finola Howard 3:27
of my own journey. I had notes from client journeys. I had insights that were going on for years. Whereas this is it's not fully uncharted territory, because I've worked with clients to help they get them get to a million. I've helped get clients get to 12 million to actually 100 million. So I've got but I haven't done it for myself. And the thing that was really important for me, and I felt was important, and I've always talked about this anyway, is that the nuances are in the tiny steps, the things that shift your thinking in these small ways, not in these big ways. And I felt I've got to capture that as it happens. Otherwise, I'm going to do that retrospective that we see everywhere, and retrospectives, yes, while extremely valuable, don't tell you the things that happen in the moment. What's your thoughts on that?
Debbie Jenkins 4:20
I love this idea. I love this idea of capturing it in the moment, rather than giving yourself a great big hindsight pat on the back at the end and going, Yeah, obviously it was clear all the way through. The journey was really clear and obvious. And yeah, we had some setbacks, but it was obvious. And I did everything right, because nobody cares if you did everything right, and nobody believes you anyway. And so I think your plan to capture the good, the bad, the ugly, the what happened, how you feeling about it, how other people are reacting to you, how the environment changes, because there are only certain things we have control over, and the rest, we only have some influence, and some we don't have even influence. So. So I think you capturing all those things is incredibly important. And here's my big and the capturing process is going to be hugely important for when you get to writing the book, but doing ands and buts, and then I'm gonna give you a they know, but what? What as a as a fly on the wall? Watching you do this, seeing the moment by moment by moment, is really important that those capturing those steps when you come to write in the book, I really encourage you to not map it. So, you know, I have this thing directions, map or landmark, don't map it. The map of it will be out of date as soon as you've published. So what do you mean by a map? Okay, so when you're when you're doing something in a terrain, so perhaps you're learning, I don't know, to be a coach, so you're learning to be a coach, and you're going through all the process, and you're learning to do all these things. You are doing it within a specified terrain. You're doing it in the UK, or you're doing it in America. You're doing it within regulations or boundaries so it has. You are drawing a map on a terrain. And so those types of books tend to be very specific to geography or to regulation or to industry or to type of business. And what we're looking for from you, I think, when you write the book, is either a landmark, which is, hey, I did it, and this is why you should do it too, why you should do it too, or this is what I did, and these are the steps, okay, and you and it only works for people who are all starting in the same place. And that's directions. The risk if you map it the map, so you describing the map as you go through it, and finding your way, you know learning your way through the terrain and overcoming the obstacles is going to be the most fly on the wall. Big Brother show we can all I'm excited to see your journey, but when you write a book, that excitement does not carry over in a Mac Book, you either have to go directions or landmark in order for people to want to read the book.
Finola Howard 7:20
So this is interesting, right? Because I've also just launched the joyful million playbook, which is, it was kind of a double whammy for me. One was, one was to to ground it, and as a way of even journaling publicly, because I made the declaration publicly. So I just thought, I'll do my newsletter on this and do it blow by blow because, for the same reason, I want to write the book. So in that, from that perspective, we're really saying the newsletter is the map and the book is The landmark. Yes, exactly, which means, of course, I get to sell newsletter and
Debbie Jenkins 8:01
the book exactly, and so we get to join you on the journey and pay you to take that journey through the scary terrain and be the lead and the guide and the and the person that we can follow and and puts their heart on their sleeve and shows us the joy and shows us the fear And the scary and the sad stuff as well. We get to follow you on that path. And then when you've done this, when you've made this, you get to give us the landmark flag and say, Hey, this is why you should do it too. This is who I have become on this journey. This is who you can become.
Finola Howard 8:39
So I want to give you some feedback. I bounced this off a mentor of mine, who's based in Canada, and and we were on a kind of hot seat call with others. And I said, you know, because I had had one to one with her, and we were as part of a program, and and her reaction, I said, I taken your advice. I'm doing X, Y and Z, and I've just made a public declaration. And she went, Okay, and then, and then she said, Yes, a lot of products do this, bring you along the journey. And she said, You can do that, and you'll be it's very vulnerable. And it was said in such a way that made me go, okay, and you're talking about scary, and I'm terrified now, and so it's this, and yet, I did an episode on the podcast recently with Matt King and talked about vulnerability. So I mean, I found the process of writing the first book, as you remember, it was very vulnerable, because every time I read in the cohort, I was crying. So I'm not sure I really want to cry for a whole year and a half. But let's talk about vulnerability then. Is like everyone is, you know, pro Brene Brown, all that kind of stuff, daring greatly. You know, the great asset of being vulnerable and. And what's your thoughts on that in this from two perspectives, one in me, sharing the journey as I go month by month, plus sharing the journey in this book, this degree of scariness. And you said sadness, and I was like, I hadn't factored on sadness. I factored scary, but sad. Yeah, I haven't like, I've got to prepare myself for this kind of stuff. What are your thoughts if you
Debbie Jenkins 10:24
just tell us the good stuff? This is my opinion. If you just tell us the good stuff, then one, I don't think people will believe you, so you will lose credibility, because people just like that just doesn't ring truth. Only good things are happening. So she's telling us she's going on this fantastic, joyful, million playbook journey, and only good things happen that kind of like that doesn't ring true, because no hero has no troubles or problems happen. Two is, you miss the opportunity to create real rapport and connection with your readers and your followers. And vulnerable. I don't think vulnerable. To me, it does not mean like airing your dirty laundry and show your knickers or any of that sort of stuff. It's not that type of vulnerable. I think it means showing the things that wake you up at four o'clock in the morning and make you doubt yourself, doubt the world, doubt your plan and then carry on anyway. I think that's what when I think of you being vulnerable, that's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear you're a superhero and nothing bad happens and you never have those self doubts. I want to hear what you do when you have those self doubts, how you continue, how you pick yourself back up if something goes wrong. So that makes sense.
Finola Howard 11:42
The way I think about doubt and self doubt, and is about I'm especially since the last book, right, I consciously pay attention to shifting my perspective all the time, all the time, now and the and I'm only, I've only started doing that since the last book, because the last book was so cathartic and such a leaving down of emotional luggage and old conditioning that I experienced this high of having no baggage. It didn't last that long. Why it lasted? It lasted a period of time, but it because life comes again, but, but I, but I'm, I'm looking at it with different eyes now. So it's, it's different. It's not, I'm not looking at it with the eyes I had when I started writing that book. So the self doubt is, is different now it's not, it's not the limit. There'll always still be limiting beliefs and stuff still, because there's a new set of beliefs. Now, you know what I mean, and I'm only starting to to affect that. And partly what I want to ask you is, do I need to just live this journey and map it for the purposes of the playbook and then and distill what I find afterwards? Or should I be thinking about what kind of chapters I should be looking at? Or what are you what are your thoughts on how I prepare myself for writing that book? And actually, when should I start writing that book, and how long do you think it'll take me to write it?
Debbie Jenkins 13:15
So this is what goes on in my imagination. First of all is you have to live the journey, day in, day out, live the journey. And so that documenting the journey, being almost a journalist of your life as you go through this and investigating yourself. So if you imagine yourself, you're an investigative journalist on your own journey. And so what did I think? How did I feel? What was I thinking before, what went wrong, what went well? What didn't I do? What would I have done differently? All those types of questions and not and not being afraid to answer them. That's the vulnerable bit. So I would do that with joy and abandon and enthusiasm and excitement and all of the lovely emotions, and I wouldn't even worry about the shape of the book until much, much later, because what will happen, I think, is my imagination. What will happen, as you said, you've already changed. You're already a different person to the person who wrote the previous book. This journey will change you again, and you will be a different person. And so if you start writing now, so say, let's say, for example, you started writing the book now, by the time you got to chapter 11 or 12, you're a different person. So those first chapters will be written by a different person. Okay, so I would wait till much later in the process to write the book, but to have in mind that you are writing a book, which means you need to have that journalistic view on your own journey, that investigating your own thoughts and ideas and reasoning. So. So that you can explain,
Finola Howard 15:01
I journaled today, right? I don't journal every day, but I journaled today because, and so here's what's interesting, right? Last week, a shift occurred for me. I knew what was happening because, because I'm not conscious of it, quite self aware around it and and because I've set intention to capture nuances, and my perspective shifted in and something happened, and I had to go and do something else, right? So I didn't capture it. And then yesterday, I went, I can't remember it now. And so I said to myself, shit. I can't remember. What am I going to do? And so this morning, so I said, I've got to remember before another shift occurs. And because this was the point, the nuance was the point. So So I sat down this morning and actually wrote, and as I wrote, I remembered, and then another shift occurs as I wrote, and so I have this in my journal now. I have shift highlighted in yellow, so I can go back into journals look for these sections. But it was just so interesting. And as I as I wrote, that I remembered, oh, there's actually previous shifts that happened since the book that I haven't tapped into either. So what's your advice to me in the investigative part that you're saying so that I don't lose anything? What are the is there five questions I ask every time I want to journal? Is there, is there a practice that I can have around my journaling with intention?
Debbie Jenkins 16:41
Yeah, that's a great question. And the highlighting the shifts so that when you go back to right is going to be really, really, really helpful. And I, because I have the I joke that I have the memory of a menopausal goldfish, okay, but it's not a joke. It's true. So I forget, I forget what I just said. It just disappears. And so I record pretty much, phones, pretty much near me most of the time. I record everything, because otherwise it's just going to zip out. And then I get transcripts from all my recordings, and then have them in a document. Okay, so there's like a that might, might help you with those when you've got it, but you've you're on the run. Okay, so, and your question was, sorry, there you go as an example.
Finola Howard 17:33
Well, you've answered one question, but it's like this investigative part. Are there like, five questions I should ask of every
Debbie Jenkins 17:39
thing? Yes, I think there are at least five questions. I have a three question on my journaling. So what went well? What went wrong and what was remains undone. They're not my questions. They're the stoic questions from epi
Finola Howard 17:55
tectus, yeah.
Debbie Jenkins 18:00
And so what went well, what went wrong, what remains undone. Okay, so those are my if I went my journaling prompts. So what did I do really well yesterday? What did I do really well in my launch of soar? What did I do really well in setting up my mailing list? What went really well, what went really badly? So like, did I spend too long on it? Did I mess about? Did I go around in circles? Yes, to all of those, put my hands up, and then what remains undone? Because usually what I find for me is there's something that didn't get finished, because stuff happens. Shit happens. We move on to the next thing. And so those little, those three prompts for me and my favorite prompts, and they will always get me going on the journaling, and they fit quite well with you know, I have that the 4f prompts, my No, my, my 4f failure prompts, which is F for failure, F for first, F for Feck ups and F for fight backs. So back to our vulnerable what's a fight back? Fight back is how you got back from it, because everybody loves to know what went wrong. But from a business point of view and from a moving forward point of view, we have to actually also then say, Hey, do you know what I fought back from that? And this is what I did. And those lessons, they're the probably what when you think of a shift, they might be your shift. So the fight back. So the fight back from, I like that, yeah. And so the first, for the first time you did something or thought something, or changed your mind, or had that problem or solved that problem, failures are when you did everything right, but it still failed, because we have no control of the external environment and something might happen. So you did all the stuff, but it still failed. And feccups are when you just do it completely wrong. You know, you tried this and it was a stupid idea, and they're okay as well. They're okay because we learn from those and then fight back to how you come back from any of those the first time you failed at A, B. So the first time you had to fire somebody, or the first time you had to close a business, okay, how did you come back from that, the failure of a business, or the failure of a product or the failure of a launch, what did you do next? How did you fight back from that? And then the Feck UPS when you did it wrong? How did you fight back from that?
Finola Howard 20:18
I like that because it makes you shift, because it makes you self aware. So in my journal, and I'm not sure I will journal every day, I have to really reflect on this, like I started the process of journaling every day. I used to journal every day and and I stopped. But perhaps I need to really do that. In as much as I commit to sea swimming every day, maybe I need to commit to doing that, and I might read something to you, will I from my little shift. Do you like to do that? I just wrote this this morning. Is it gonna make me cry? No, I'm not that good yet, but it's I, I I had a shift? Yeah, I wrote this morning. I've had more opportunities come my way in the last four weeks than I've had in ages. I believe it's the power of setting intention that, and it's that idea of setting that public declaration like that, for me, was a first shift because I agonized. I didn't agonize for too long. I just kind of dove right in and set Feck it to do it. But I believe that power setting intention and publicly setting that intention also caused shift in itself. So while we're being voyeuristic of how I'm going to do this, I've already given myself an edge, like I've already given myself an edge for this by setting that public intention. So there's power in doing that, like in being very clear. And I had a conversation with a client, potential client, this morning, and asked the question of, well, what do you want to happen by the end of this year? Like, what is it and and I asked her to nail the money figure, and, and the response was, Well, I'm coming from a very low place. And she now, I didn't ask that question. She proceeded to tell me all about why the The place was low, how much the place was, you know, what the the turnover of the business was, and where she was, where she is, but it wasn't what I asked her. And I think we really often hide in what we're doing wrong, so that we don't move into that place of shifting into a new headspace to expand our thinking, to be in that to own that intention, and I in this discovery call I walked her through. Well, let's let's say, but that I said to her, that's not what I asked you. And so we worked through this thing of and so she has left this call with a very clear intention of what she's going to do. Now, the thing I know about setting intention is, and I've always known this, and the power of doing this is that your brain immediately goes okay and helps you figure out how to do it. So for me, again, I've given myself an edge instead of quietly whispering, because, to confess, I have been quietly whispering because that intention of turning a million inside of two years has been on my wall this year, but I never said it to anybody. And in fact, to share with you also, if, if someone was coming into my office, like if Sean was coming in, I kind of want to hide it now. Like, why would we hide our intentions? Why would we hide our dreams? Because the very fact of hiding our dreams means we won't make them real.
Debbie Jenkins 23:42
Yeah, oh gosh, that's so you've given me loads of shivers. And oh
Finola Howard 23:49
yeah, and so, so doing this, right? I moved into this, and I said, I somehow believe I believe this more now. So I believe it's power setting intention. Somehow I believe this more. I believe that I can do this more. And the mental shift is so subtle, it's fleeting, and it's a belief thing. It's like it happens in one small step from one threshold into the next. It's like you're over the door, and on one side, I'm not making a million, and on the other side, I'm going to make a million. So there's no in between steps. There's this one tiny step that it's this tiny. And this is what I wanted, this nuance shift that goes from one side of the door to the other side of the door. And that's the thing that I wanted to capture. And and here's, and I said, from one threshold to the next, and it's a feeling like I'm valuable now. And I went and I wrote that and I went, what? Where did that come from? So, so I so it's very interesting, isn't it?
Debbie Jenkins 24:54
It really is. And you kind of reminded me of one of my favorite words. You know me, and what words is lemon? No, okay, so that, do you know the word liminal? I just love this word because it sounds so pretty. Okay, liminal, in liminal space, exactly. It's that threshold. It's that not in one, not in the other. And we tend to, I think, but I certainly do. I rush through the liminal spaces. I kind of like I'm not staying around here. It's scary. It's like I'm either in or I'm out. I'm staying where I am, or I'm 100% in. But the liminal spaces, those little threshold moments, I think, have lots of where we can learn, and we kind of zip through the
Finola Howard 25:33
and Debbie loves when I say this. Just say, but this is the space where the magic says she to an engineer. This is where the magic happens in this liminal space, because I think this space in between is loaded with possibility that you could go either way.
Debbie Jenkins 25:49
Yeah, it really Yeah, and it reminds me of strouding his cat. So you know, if you're cat in a box with, if you open the box, is the cat alive, with the cat dead, and it's, I don't kill cats. That's not like, you know, that's not what we're talking about here. But there is a, it's like, it's an engineer thing of particles and waves, and is it there, or is it not there? And that is that liminal space. And we get to, we get to choose, and that is quite, I think, really exciting. And that's what we're back to. Joy is, I think the joy is in that liminal space and taking a little moment there, rather than just, I'm telling myself, it's rather than just racing through all of the spaces.
Finola Howard 26:39
But I think it's more than that, because it's where, as I wrote that I was in the liminal space trying to make sure I didn't forget to capture anything. And in the writing of it, it made me manifest it. It shifted me. It meant that I moved, whereas if I kept my head in the weeds, I wouldn't have moved. And I know I've moved already, and that's like, this is four weeks, so I know I've moved, and I did. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I think that's really interesting.
Debbie Jenkins 27:18
It's almost like that dream space, you know, when you wake up in the morning and there's a brilliant dream you just dream you've just had, or a really scary dream, and if you move or you get up, that dream just kind of dissipates and disappears. It's capturing it's just having that that gap and that moment to think through the dream. Because dreams usually tell us lots of stuff as well, and that's where your liminal moments are, and that's where the shift is becomes its clearest. I think,
Finola Howard 27:41
because I feel that the thing that I learned from the previous book was I found myself capturing the the changes in me and the changes in clients as they moved through their own limits, and as I moved through my own limits as they occurred, because I felt it could be completely incorrect. But I felt that there was an order of how, of how you need to shift this stuff, that there was, there are layers of imposter syndrome and conditioning and all that that you have to move through in a certain order, completely theoretical by the way, that you have to move through in a certain order, because it was the order I kept seeing them in. And that's how that book was written. And I feel that this book, my perspective is, I feel this book needs to be written like that too,
Debbie Jenkins 28:36
yes. And it might be that you're not 100% sure what the order was until you've lived the order. And so that's why it you do. You know, when researchers are doing research, and they try really hard, if they're trying to investigate something, rather than say, Well, this is what we're trying to prove, they push to try and disprove their idea. And I think right now, rather than saying, I think these are the steps. I think you just need to go through and then say, yes, they were the steps, or I had a couple mixed up, and that's okay. I needed to add a couple of extra, and that's okay, rather than try to prove and then force yourself on a path. So I would live the path. I would just live it, see, because, yeah, no hero's journey. The sort of like the story this is that you are living the hero's journey. And for people like me, you are the hero. And I want to follow you and see what you do and all of these escapades you get up to and how you bring that back, and you you know how the people help you, and you find the guides. So that's the exciting part, too, as the voyeur of your journey,
Finola Howard 29:41
if I said to you, right, my deadline is the 22nd of March, 2027 right to hit a million I have loosely in my head. Well, actually, not. Sorry, that's in completely incorrect. I have decided no. Yeah, well, I could be wrong, right? So I've decided that I will start writing the book in December 2026 which is before the end of that. Is that good or bad? If I said to you my deadline for turning the million is March 22 2027 when would you set intention to start writing the book? Okay?
Debbie Jenkins 30:24
And I think you write to start a few months before with not. And do you remember when we wrote the books the first time I said, don't write the introduction, don't write the conclusions. Write the middle bit first, because the intro and the conclusions will write at the end. And so you'll be setting that middle bit off. You'll be writing that middle bit, and then when you hit it, when you're there, when you know that the story is complete, that the that the book is good, you can write your intro and your conclusions. And by the way, am I remembering correctly? Is March 22 special.
Finola Howard 30:54
Yes, it's my birthday. We had to have a book in hand for my birthday. So my question for you is, is it possible? Because I'd love this as possible, like, what's my publish date?
Debbie Jenkins 31:08
Yeah, so if you wrote it, if you started writing it in December 26 and you were finished, for your your RA day, your birthday and your meal day, your million day. Then within two to three months after that, if you could finish writing by then, within two three months after that, you'll have a booking. Give me a date, so you will have your book in hands of March to have to do on my fingers, April.
Finola Howard 31:35
May remember now, I'll have to, I'll have to, you know, do the numbers go? Did I get it? Did I make it? How do we feel about the results? Good or bad? Like, I the result of this could be, no, it's not going to be that.
Debbie Jenkins 31:51
The result could be 10 million. I mean, that's what we're looking for, isn't it? That's like, you know, that could be the results.
Finola Howard 31:57
That could be my self limiting belief. Yeah. Okay, so what's my date?
Debbie Jenkins 32:03
So your date would be, you will have a book in your hand by the 21st of so if you've sent us the manuscript on your birthday, which will be great, then you will have a book by 22nd
Finola Howard 32:14
of June. I can't have the manuscript by my birthday because the numbers won't be in Okay, so let's move that out to 20. Do you think I'm being pedantic? Do you think I should know enough? You you
Debbie Jenkins 32:24
will know enough. By then, you will know enough. Yeah. And you will be just writing the sort of you'll just be doing this final screen capture of the bank account, or however you're going to measure, yeah.
Finola Howard 32:34
So, so my deadline is to have so is to submit my transcript, right? Or my draft book, yeah, yeah, by the
Debbie Jenkins 32:47
22nd of March, yeah, and you'll have it by 22nd of July.
Finola Howard 32:50
22 of July is published. A Yep. And I was saying, is that bad time to launch?
Debbie Jenkins 32:56
And I'll be saying yes, but don't worry, we'll do we'll try and do it earlier, but 20 seconds July will be our kind of late date. 22nd of June, if you don't, if you have written and you're just waiting to put the final, let's
Finola Howard 33:11
do 22nd July. It just feels right. Feels like,
Debbie Jenkins 33:13
I think it feels like a good date.
Finola Howard 33:16
Okay, so also, Debbie, my other question for you. Who's going to keep me on track for this book? Because the last time I had a cohort, should I be looking for a cohort? Or are we going to do this together? What are we doing? What's the best way for me to get because I already I'm aware of the process, because I've gone through it once. What's the best way for me to write this book with accountability, okay?
Debbie Jenkins 33:44
So the key to accountability is, is not relying on the person that you are having as an accountability partner. So the only reason we have an accountability partner is as a robot hinder that we are accountable to ourselves, in my opinion, okay, when we do cohorts, the benefit of the cohort is that that there is a group of people all going through the process together, and that kind of has a snowball effect of accountability. If you don't have a cohort and you're writing this yourself, then your accountability will be to yourself. And I think there are a couple of different ways of doing your own accountability, and you can do this with me. You can do this with a software. So there's a software that we're developing at the moment for helping with accountability. The key is to do what I call the three handstands habit. Okay, so this, I talk about people this all the time. So when I hit 40, I bought a runny jumpy horse. Fell off a runny jumpy horse, because 40 runny jumpy broke my arm, okay, and then had to fix my arm. And so went to Dr Google, and Dr Google said, broken arms in your 40s. Take a while to fix. You need to do weight bearing. And so weight bearing for. Me was handstands, okay? And so in order to do handstands every day, I set a protocol, and it has four bits. The first bit is, what's the minimum effective dose? And so this protocol for doing something, this is your accountability protocol, okay, so what's the minimum effective dose? This comes from Tim Ferris Bueller, as I always call him, Tim Ferriss minimum effective dose. So accountability, what are you going to promise to yourself and to whoever else you can have an accountability partner like me. You can message me. What are you going to promise yourself? Is the minimum you will do. Okay? And then we're going to talk about when in a moment. So that could be journaling every day, that could be writing for 15 minutes that could be writing for an hour. Okay, so that's a minimum you're committing to.
Finola Howard 35:45
So at the moment, it's journaling every day, really, isn't it, because I've got
Debbie Jenkins 35:49
to live it Yes. And then you'll move into the next minimum effective dose, which will be writing, and that could be writing for 30 minutes every day, okay? And that's when I'm writing the book. Yes, yeah. So minimum effective dose is the first when
Finola Howard 36:04
do I need to start writing the book? Then I would say, Are we saying December?
Debbie Jenkins 36:07
I would say, December's okay. I would be planning the book and what it looks like in October, November. Ty, so how is it, how was the shape of this that I'm going to write to Okay, okay. Okay. And then you that will make life easier for you if you have a shape, which we call the working outline, so minimum effective dose. Second thing is no zero days. Now, if you've ever been on a Weight Watchers or program or any type of weight thing, or even Tim Ferriss own weight thing, he says, You can have a cheat day. Can have a cheat day. I don't believe in cheat days. Cheat days absolutely screw me over. So if there's a day where I don't have to do the thing, then that turns into two days or three days, or a week or five weeks. Okay, so I have a no zero dates policy for things that I want to get done. So for example, I'm very proud of myself. I have now meditated for 124 days. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. So no zero days. I need
Finola Howard 37:04
to go back to my daily journaling. Yes.
Debbie Jenkins 37:06
And if that no zero days is absolutely impossible, then you can do no zero weeks. So there can be no week that passes without you doing something. But you have to make a commitment to that. You have to decide, but I'm making that commitment now, yeah, no zero days. And so you and, and you want to measure those, no zero days. So the reason why I've managed to do 124, days of meditation is because the app measures it. And I want to see those little ticks. I'm like, you know, I'm a child for the ticks. Okay, so measure it. Some has a visual measurement. The next thing is habit stacking. And this comes from James clear and atomic habit, habit stacking. So do it. So whatever is that you want to do regularly, connect it with something that you're already doing. So when I was doing my handstands, every time I was waiting for the coffee to brew in the morning, I would do three handstands, minimum, every day I have coffee every day, I do my three handstands every day. And no zero days. Bump, bump, bump, three handstands. Okay, I can do it before I go swimming. Yeah, perfect. There you go. So now you've connected with a habit that you already have, and a habit, especially habits that you look forward to. So that's your connect it to a habit stack. And then the final thing is perfect practice, and we've heard about this from people in the past. So for example, one of the habits I'm trying to pick up is playing my guitar. Okay? Now, if I just play my guitar to myself in my own little dev world, I'm just going to carry on making the same mistakes. Okay? And it's not a good practice. I can do it every day, but it's going to not get better, because I'm doing the same crap practice every day. So we need to have feedback on the practice, and so that feedback can come from a measure, whatever measurement you want. So for example, with my handstands, it was how many more could I do? So at some one point, I was actually doing 20 handstand push ups. So that was a way to measure the perfectness of the practice, because I could do more in the same body. Yeah. So you need, you need some way of measuring the goodness of how well you're doing.
Finola Howard 39:16
How am I going to do that? Because I'm thinking, measure perfect,
Unknown Speaker 39:20
measure the goodness, yes, the goodness of the practice.
Finola Howard 39:24
So I already feel that, right? So I'll do my journaling every morning. I have questions around that as well. But the the perfect practice seems to me like the joyful million playbook is what where I've I've committed to sharing what has happened every month. So for four weeks, I'm going to share, and I'll have an issue coming out shortly, and what I've done, what I learned, all that kind of stuff, warts and all, and so, but if, but how do I measure what's perfect? Like, it's good for me to do that publicly, because people can reply to it, and maybe that's it. Do I ask them to reply to me and say, I want to measure this as a perfect practice. I've just decided now this is going to be part of my process. Can you come back to me? Do I add that component to the joyful million playbook?
Debbie Jenkins 40:12
Yes, I would add some sort of measurement to it to see how so for a perfect practice, for journaling in your joyful million playbooks or substack sign up. I was the first signer. So forget that. Ask people, how did they feel about it? So, you know, some people say, you know, how did this it's good medium, brilliant, or, you know, bad to have like a at the end of their newsletter, they have like, rate it, anything like that. So anything where you're going to get feedback from the readers, that it's that you're building rapport, that it's hitting them, that they're interested, that they want more. So that could just be shares. So it could be comments. So whatever it is that you can measure on your journaling and your on your the joyful million playbook that
Finola Howard 41:03
gives you a what that says to me is, we're measuring my writing. We're not measuring my journey.
Debbie Jenkins 41:10
Really, yes, yeah. So you Yeah,
Finola Howard 41:16
well, like I'm measuring my journey because I've got numbers, you know what I mean. So I am measuring Yeah, yeah,
Debbie Jenkins 41:20
and you and so from measuring your journey, so your if we, if we think of applying these four rules to your journey, then you can say, month on month, am I getting better a month on month? Am I having hockey stick on the months? Or is it just baby tiny, incremental, because that might not get you to the million fast enough. So you know, have you got some bigger leaps? So that's one way of measuring for your months. And when we get to writing, that's when the best so writing, when you're writing, then you probably do need to get somebody to read and comment and give you feedback.
Finola Howard 42:03
Okay, so my first thing is the journaling, yeah, and then doing my Stacker, and then, but the second date, so I'm starting that in October. No, I'm journaling now and then in October and November, we're doing the shape of this. What's the next step after the shape of this? As in a date?
Debbie Jenkins 42:26
Yeah. So from January onwards, you would be, I would suggest you would be writing one hour every day, no zero days, one hour to your outline, to the shape of the book, starting in chapter one, not the introduction, not the conclusion, writing through the chapters, drawing on all of the investigative stuff, the journalism that you've been doing, up your process along the way, putting on all of that.
Finola Howard 42:53
Okay, so I have three big deadlines. Yeah, easy. Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah. What do you think, Debbie?
Debbie Jenkins 43:04
I just excited for you. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for the journey. I'm excited to learn more from how you do this and how it comes off. So, yeah,
Finola Howard 43:16
because I saw a stat, and I'm gonna have to share this in the show notes, because I've got to but there is a tiny percentage of women who make seven figures, a very small minority. So that's my other motivation for doing this, because we want more women to make a million in a way that doesn't need to burn out. That's my caveat. You see, it's not just a million euro turnover. It's a million euro turnover without the burnout. Yes, that's why part of my my journey, is also about being physically able for it. It's about building in rest periods. It's about building in that liminal space. It's about all of that stuff so that there is no burnout. Because I don't believe it's necessary. I think it's an antiquated view of success.
Debbie Jenkins 44:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. It's antiquated, and it's and it's persistent. It kind of like, if you want to do this, then you're going to have to give everything else up, no more going swimming every day, no more enjoying life, no more spending time with your family. You've got to give everything up and have this focus. Have this focus, and I think you're right to want to do that without losing the rest of your world.
Finola Howard 44:29
Very, cool, okay, what do you want to leave me with?
Debbie Jenkins 44:33
I want to leave you and the listeners and the listeners with this idea that me and a friend have been writing about for a while, and we've been noodling on the background. Is about hacking serendipity, okay? And so, yeah. And so when I hear that you want to get to a million, I'm thinking to myself, first, you're gonna have to do a lot of stuff, and she's gonna need a bit of luck. Okay, not, I'm like, not talking luck, as in, win a million on the lottery. Mm. I'm talking strategic, organized look, and that's what hacking serendipity about is about. So we think that when to hack serendipity, you need to have you need to do actions, you need to do stuff, and you need to make yourself lucky. And so just some little thoughts about for you, about doing action and making yourself lucky. So one of the action things, and you mentioned it earlier, about not letting people see your million on the wall and not telling people about it originally, okay, that reduces your look luck footprint. Can't say the word look very well, because I'm a Brummie. It sounds the wrong Good luck. Okay, so when you don't tell people what you're doing and what's going on, you reduce your luck foot to print. You kind of like you narrow it down because other people can't see it, so therefore they can't put you in contact with others. They can't make those connections for you. So one is, you've got to tell people. You've got to, that's one of the actions to make yourself more looking to hack serendipity. So you've got to tell people, and you've got to ask people, you'll say, Hey, I'm on this journey. What can you do to help me? What do you know about people? Who else should I be speaking to? I think you've got to ask for the things, especially maybe women don't tend to ask for. We kind of like think we've got to work it out ourselves. I think you've got to make that surface area of look bigger. You've got to be in the places. So you've got to turn up, which is what you do with your podcast. So regularly, you turn up, you be visible. But I think one of the things I'm trying to do more is turn up in person, because I've been a bit of a recluse here in the Spain mountains, but turning up the beat where the people are. And I think you've got to spot the patterns. And so my leaving you with is for thinking about, how can you hack the luck part of this process. So you can do all the things, but the environment and the people that you with also need to be part of the thing, so that will will help you with your surface area of luck.
Finola Howard 47:13
I completely love this, and you've just summed up my last four weeks, because I've really leaned it, leaned into this idea of joy, right? Really strongly. It was always there. But I owned it after that book, right? And more recently, when I made the public declaration and all that kind of stuff. And I have been contacted so many times this month because I made that public declaration, which is your luck footprint, which you said at the start, because they said, I saw this, and I immediately thought of you, because it's an article about joy in business. I think it would be really great for you. I want you to, like, I've had that for the last four weeks. It's incredible. And I think, like, I find that because that's actually positioning. You know what I mean? That's what I talk about all the time. And I think, and I'm like, I talk about that all the time, and I've just really leaned into like, really like, it's the whole idea of edge craft, taking it to the edge, but leaned into it more strongly, because I leaned into it more strongly, and wasn't hiding my own potential out there, but leaned into it, that it is hacking serendipity. They've just come to me. It's incredible. I love that.
Debbie Jenkins 48:31
That's a book coming out next year. So that was with my great friends,
Finola Howard 48:35
what it's really interesting that you have strategic, organized, look, it's not what you said, yeah. So, well, yeah, you've got to find a you in there. So, so,
Debbie Jenkins 48:50
yeah, I do. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Finola Howard 48:59
Last Word, Debbie, and we're gone.
Debbie Jenkins 49:01
Last word, okay, you've got this, and we are ready to see you on your journey, and I'm excited for you, and I'm here to help you with anything that you need to make this work. Thank you so much.
Finola Howard 49:20
Thank you so much. Okay, that's all, folks. That was my conversation with Debbie Jenkins, and I hope you enjoyed listening in to this behind the scenes moment as much as I enjoyed sharing it, you've now had a glimpse into how my second book is beginning to take shape, alongside my journey to build a million euro business without burning out. And if this conversation resonated with you, the best way you can support the show is simple, subscribe, rate and leave a quick review. It really helps more people discover your truth shared. Thank you for listening. You.
